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  #16  
Old 03-10-2009, 08:43 PM
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Default Re: Another TOS Enterprise... sorta

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Originally Posted by Richard_2001 View Post
Ahh OK pretend it is a practice hull for the real deal then
After thinking about your post I've decided to test an idea for a make-shift lathe using a hand drill... I could test it while seeing if I could remove the non-symmetrical aspects of this hull

If it works, then that would speed up creation of a replacement(and assure that the same mistake doesn't happen again).
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Old 03-10-2009, 09:38 PM
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Default Re: Another TOS Enterprise... sorta

Shaw,

I would recommend course sandpaper on a shaped block over a sharp metal tool if you are going to use a hand drill some drills wobble a bit after they get used and would tend to make metal tools gouge a bit unpredictably.

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Old 03-29-2009, 09:40 PM
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Default Re: Another TOS Enterprise... sorta

Failure can be a very liberating experience ( maybe it should be added to the stages of grief).

By declaring my first primary hull a failure, and re-designating it as a test article, I was willing to try out a number of things that I would have been reticent to attempt otherwise.

First on the list was dealing with the warping of the primary hull. Though not completely visible from most angles, it was enough that I really felt it needed to be fixed (even though this is mainly a test part now). So the idea occurred to me that maybe the best approach would be heat. So I popped the whole thing in the microwave for 20 seconds and then attempted to fix the over all deformation... taking care that it didn't return as it cooled off. It worked, so the hull is flat enough that I don't notice it while working with it any more.

The second thing was that I wasn't going to waste parts I had bought on a test article. So there was no way I was going to use the DML Parts B/C structure on this (not only because it cost money, but also because it took hours to modify to work with the flatten top of the primary hull that it was to work with). The first thing that came to mind was to use the remaining parts from the 22 inch kit. Unfortunately they are noticeably larger than what I need and so even though they looked nice, they wouldn't do.

So I decided to fabricate my own parts based on my plans... and it is turning out quite nicely so far.

I'll most likely do the same thing for the impulse engines, which means that when I'm done all of the dorsal and primary hull will be scratch built with no parts from elsewhere.

Speaking of the dorsal, I decided that it was easy enough to make the first time that I would use the one I have with the primary hull I have on hand. They went together very nicely which showed that my original idea for putting them together was sound.

If all these parts come together nice enough to have a displayable finished model, I may still save the name Enterprise (and the decals I have for it) for a later build and name this one Challenger (after the space shuttle built from test articles).

I'll put together some images of the progress a little later.
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  #19  
Old 03-31-2009, 12:22 AM
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Default Re: Another TOS Enterprise... sorta

I was hoping for better images, but these will have to do for the time being.

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Old 03-31-2009, 09:27 AM
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Default Re: Another TOS Enterprise... sorta

That is coming along nicely.
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  #21  
Old 03-31-2009, 03:34 PM
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Default Re: Another TOS Enterprise... sorta

Looking GOOD!!
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  #22  
Old 03-31-2009, 03:39 PM
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Default Re: Another TOS Enterprise... sorta

Shaw,

That looks awesome with a coat of primer the distinctive hump on the upper primary hull will really show up !!!

I can hardly wait for the real model to get this far

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  #23  
Old 04-01-2009, 10:45 AM
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Default Re: Another TOS Enterprise... sorta

Yeah, I'm somewhat surprised at how well it is going... and this is a great opportunity to see how well my concepts actually work.

And on that note, the next major hurdle to over come was the placement of the warp nacelles. as you guys may have noticed, I liberated the nacelles from the supports and covered up their original attachment points (because they were in the wrong place making the nacelles wider apart than on the original model). Getting them to reattach was always going to be an interesting trick, but I did have something in mind before I started all the cutting.

The main idea was that there would be two wires coming out of the nacelles (made from paper clips) that would enter the tops of the supports to act as guides and anchors for their alignment. I cut off the top edges of the supports at the angle I would need to meet the engines flush, so I wouldn't need to do too much work on making the seams where they join together less noticeable. Also, this helps because the dorsal I made is slightly taller than the original kit's dorsal, and this moves the nacelles up a little.

For me, when things fit together nicely without having to glue them, I know that I'm on the right track. And so other than a single rubber band (which is unfortunately twisting the nacelles inwards a little), these parts are sitting together on their own based on how they fit.


As I said, this was the plan... but thinking something might work and finally seeing some conformation of it are two totally different things. And I am quite ecstatic over this test!

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  #24  
Old 04-01-2009, 05:30 PM
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Default Re: Another TOS Enterprise... sorta

Shaw,

That looks perfect, I was always annoyed at trying to get the nacelles to look right on the AMT kit and it seemed to me the struts were not tall enough to get the look, of course now that I know that the angle and where they attached could use some improvement I just might dig out the old kit and see what can be done with it or get one of the repops maybe.

Looking good to me Glad it turned out ok !!!!!
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  #25  
Old 04-04-2009, 12:50 AM
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Default Re: Another TOS Enterprise... sorta

One last look before I disassemble the pieces and get back to work on the individual parts.

First, a couple days ago I was wondering how I could get a nearly orthographic view of the model that I could cross check against my plans... then the light hit me! Literally. For a short time each morning the sun light shines in and I realized I could use the shadow of the model to make the comparisons. It's not perfect (the sun light passes through a tree) and as I pointed out earlier the rubber band is pulling the nacelles inward a bit much. But still, I'm pretty happy with the fact that it is as close as it is in the incomplete state that it is in.


Of course matching the plans wasn't the point. The plans were of a real model I wanted to match, so I attempted to match the camera angle of the shot that set me on my quest back when I was just starting out making models.


Both of those comparisons have left me feeling like I'm on the right path.

Now I just need to iron out some bumps (well, really sand out some bumps).
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  #26  
Old 04-04-2009, 07:02 AM
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Default Re: Another TOS Enterprise... sorta

Nicely done thus far, David.
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  #27  
Old 04-04-2009, 01:37 PM
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Default Re: Another TOS Enterprise... sorta

Thanks!

Honestly, while I was cutting up parts and making new pieces (even with a plan in mind), I was worried that I wouldn't have even got it to the point of a test assembly (short of some major external support structure).

It is hard to tell from images, but the saucer and dorsal aren't glued to the secondary hull... and yet I can pick up the whole model from the front of the saucer with it assembled like this.

So yeah, while I hoped (and planned) on things fitting together nicely... I'm not sure I honestly believed they would until they actually did.
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  #28  
Old 04-11-2009, 11:12 AM
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Default Re: Another TOS Enterprise... sorta

Some more images of the model, this time being hung...


Again, other than that rubber band around the warp nacelles, the model is holding itself together based on how the pieces are fitting. In some of those images you can see the Constellation sitting below waiting to be finished.

And here are some comparison images between the two models...


It is actually interesting to see the differences between them. The Enterprise model is about a half inch taller and the overall length about a half inch longer than the stock 22 inch kit.

Even though aspects are turning out better than expected, I'm still debating what to do about the decals. I have a set of Enterprise decals that I got from JT Graphics, which look nice and match up with my plans (when they are printed at two-thirds scale). But the thing is that the actual 33 inch model (in it's final configuration) had gold outlined numbers and letters.

As I recall someone was selling such decals at one point, but I can't seem to find them now. And I'm sure that I could get some specially made, but I'm not sure that this is the build I want to spend that type of money on.

Someone has pointed out that the gold outlines were actually aging of the decals, but while I had originally dismissed the outlines too (when I saw images of the decals by themselves), when I started comparing them to what I originally thought was raised letters and numbers on the model I changed my mind. And the fact that one of the dots on U.S.S. ENTERPRISE was missing the outline made me believe that it was added on purpose.


The question as to when it was added is an interesting one... it wasn't on the model when used for effects shots in The Cage, it is hard to tell in the publicity photos (but I'm thinking not), but it might have been there by the end of the third season (when it made it's last on screen appearance.

Still, I can live without it.

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Maybe (while I'm hemming and hawing on which direction to go on this model) we could use this thread to discuss the history of the model I'm attempting to replicate.

People still seem to wonder about this model and I was short on details in my plans as I was more concerned with the drawings (and the models geometry) than the history at the time. Since then I've been collecting together a lot more about the history (of both models), and can even point out which episodes featured the 33 inch model in all three seasons.

So I'll put together more information, along with some before and after diagrams of the model discussing the differences between how it looked in The Cage/WNMHGB and how it looked when altered to better match the series alterations made to the 11 foot model.

To get started, a collection of images of the 33 inch model I put together a while back.


And a review of the early production history...
  • Nov. 4, 1964 (Wednesday): Richard Datin agrees to build an approximate three foot long model based on an early set of plans which give a real world scale of 1:48 (if this had been the final drawings, this would have been the 540' version, but the proportions of this early drawing are actually significantly different from the final plans).
  • Nov. 7, 1964 (Saturday): The final construction plans are finished. These plans include the scale reference of FULL SIZE & 3" = 1'-0" TO LARGE MINIATURE. My reconstruction of those plans can be found here.
  • Nov. 8, 1964 (Sunday): Richard Datin receives the plans and starts building the full size 33 inch model out of kiln-dried sugar pine.
  • Nov. 15, 1964 (Sunday): A little more than a week later the 33 inch model is presented to Roddenberry for approval. I'd guess this is where the addition of exterior windows was requested (which were not part of the original design), and the model returns with Datin after this viewing of it.
  • Dec. 8, 1964 (Tuesday): Construction is started on the 11 foot model.
  • Dec. 14, 1964 (Monday): The 33 inch model is delivered to Roddenberry for final approval while The Cage was being filmed in Culver City (there are images of Hunter and Roddenberry examining the model on this date). This model is used for all effects shots in The Cage except the most important one (the zoom in on the bridge).
  • [b]Dec. 24, 1964 (Thursday):[/url] Shooting of The Cage wraps, only one effects shot still outstanding (all other model shots use the 33 inch model).
  • Dec. 29, 1964 (Tuesday): The 11 foot model (built by Datin, Mel Keys and Vern Sion) was delivered to the Howard A. Anderson studio. This version is unpowered and the windows are painted on the surface of the model... and even then the model was designed to be shot from the right side only.
  • Jan. 23, 1965 (Saturday): After The Cage is already in the can and waiting for network approval of the new series, additional test shots of the 11 foot model are taken in it's original condition.
  • Jan. 30, 1965 (Saturday): Aspects of the ship's size (like it being 190,000 tons) were being distributed to the media in the descriptions of the new show.

I'm still working on nailing down more info, but I think this is a good start for now.

As for when the model was seen, I'm working on a shot list, but generally it was seen in every episode of TOS (as it went swooshing by in the opening credits). It was used for all but the bridge zoom in shot in The Cage, it was used for the shot of the Enterprise leaving the barrier in WNMHGB. It was used for the shots of the Enterprise from below in Tomorrow is Yesterday (two different angles). Though it was generally retired by the second season (an AMT model of the Enterprise was constructed to take it's place at the same time as the Constellation was made), it did appear in By Any Other Name (exiting the barrier and zooming towards the Andromeda Galaxy) using shots of the model from WNMHGB and The Cage. In the third season it appeared in Is There In Truth No Beauty? (two speeding Enterprise shot before entering the barrier and one of the ship exiting the barrier), again using shots of the model from The Cage and WNMHGB. It's last appearance on screen (and the first using new footage since Tomorrow is Yesterday) was in Requiem for Methuselah when it played a reduced Enterprise sitting on a table top (and what I am aiming for my model to generally look like when finished).

I think it is generally known that after the series ended it was given to Roddenberry (who displayed it on his desk throughout the 1970s), but was lost after it was loaned to someone in the early 1980s. The person (or persons) didn't return the model and Roddenberry claimed to have forgotten who it was that he loaned it to. It is still missing to this day.
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  #29  
Old 04-11-2009, 04:27 PM
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Default Re: Another TOS Enterprise... sorta

Looking GOOD!!! And thanks for the info.
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  #30  
Old 04-16-2009, 09:15 AM
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Default Re: Another TOS Enterprise... sorta

I wanted to discuss an omission (error) from my plans... the spine on the back of the primary hull. Part of the reason for this model is to help iron out details from the original model and find mistakes in the first version of my plans. And I'm bringing this part up because I just finished forming that piece even though it's real geometry is absent from my plans (and I'm still not sure how to draw it to convey it correctly).

Building it wasn't especially difficult. What I used was a BIC pen that I cut in half and sanded off to fit the contours of the hull. It is actually at an angle (sloping up as it goes forward), and is flattened out (or squared off) over the impulse engines.

On the pilot version that is all there is to it, but when modified for the series an additional raised line was added along the top (to better match the 11 foot model).

Here are some comparison images of my piece and the original... mine isn't finished yet and is just sitting on the model for these images.


It is interesting to note that in addition to the drilled holes on either edge of the original model's primary hull (which I noted in my plans) for hanging it (which were not drilled directly across from each other), a hole was drilled through it's spine too.
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