Imperator -Class Star Destroyer in CG: fully detailed

[jedilaw]

Some of you have seen this WIP. Others have not, as it's only been posted on one public site frequented by practical modelers.

At any rate, this project is a CG replica of the 8-foot Star Destroyer model used in The Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi. I'm doing it greeble-for-greeble, meaning that as much as possible if there's a detail piece on the practical model, it's going to be on this model. The main limitation being reference photos: some areas just are not documented very well.

Since this is a "free for all" type forum, I figured I would get some un-varnished appraisals. Not that I think anyone has pulled punches in other forums. At least, I hope not.


http://www.3dscifi.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10161/waj-isd-armor28.jpg
http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u20/jedilaw/waj-isd-towergreebs9.jpg
http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u20/jedilaw/waj-isd-towergreebs10.jpg
http://www.3dscifi.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10161/waj-isd-towergreebs5.jpg
http://www.3dscifi.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10161/waj-isd-armor29.jpg
http://www.3dscifi.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10161/waj-isd-terraces64.jpg
http://www.3dscifi.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10161/waj-isd-terraces64.jpg
http://www.3dscifi.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10161/WAJ-ISD-Terraces-Side.jpg
http://www.3dscifi.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10161/waj-isd-armor19.jpg
http://www.3dscifi.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10161/WAJ-ISD-ARMOR30.jpg
http://www.3dscifi.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10161/waj-isd-engines23.jpg
http://www.3dscifi.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10161/waj-isd-underside3.jpg
http://www.3dscifi.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10161/waj-isd-underside2.jpg

[tobiasrichter]

Very cool so far. Quite a challenge with such a detail-monster, but looks very good! I'm always a bit worried how the enormous amount of polygons and shaders will affect rendering times at the end. I've had a couple of detailed meshes that made a lot of problems.

Keep us posted...

Tobias

[Kuhn Global]

Man I love this!

This beastie job you have done is absolutely BEAUTIFUL!!!!

Very VERY NICE!!! :D

[rider]

This is great work and its nice to see on here.

I got a few questions if that’s okay. I need a new PC cuz mine is 10 years old and the more I try and improve my 3D, the more I am restricted. PC shops etc would not be the right folk to ask, so would love your input.

(Move to another thread if need be).

I’m okay when I make small files, but if the basic non rendered size hits 8MB+, I know I’m starting to get into trouble, and the last thing I was building hit 80MB so I can’t proceed.

So:-

1. What’s your basic file size for this at the moment?

2. What requirements do you guys recommend a basic home pc to have?

[jedilaw]

This is great work and its nice to see on here.

I got a few questions if that’s okay. I need a new PC cuz mine is 10 years old and the more I try and improve my 3D, the more I am restricted. PC shops etc would not be the right folk to ask, so would love your input.

(Move to another thread if need be).

I’m okay when I make small files, but if the basic non rendered size hits 8MB+, I know I’m starting to get into trouble, and the last thing I was building hit 80MB so I can’t proceed.

So:-

1. What’s your basic file size for this at the moment?

2. What requirements do you guys recommend a basic home pc to have?

File size is about 90-100mb right now.

For PC specs, tough question since it depends on whether you want to do only CGI, you want to play games, do full Hi-Def video, etc. My laptop, which I use for this project, is a 2ghz Intel Core Duo with 2gb RAM a GeForce 7900GS GO video card with 256mb and a 200gb hard drive. I can render this model is about ten minutes most of the time.

If buying today I would go for an Intel Core 2 Duo, not the fastest clock speed out but two or three steps down from the fastest. Intel makes their biggest profits on the top 3-4 processors, so you'll pay a premium and it won't be that much faster percentage-wise. You need as much RAM as possible, 2GB if you can swing it, 4GB if you are using 64-bit Windows XP with 64-bit 3DS Max or Lightwave. IIRC, the Core 2 Duo is 64-bit, but I may be wrong. Your video card will not affect rendering time, but may have some effect on viewport performance while working. As with processors, buy below the top end to save money.

Hope that helps.

Thanks for the positive feedback guys! (EDIT: why does f-e-e-d-b-a-c-k read as fuck? :wtf: :werd: )

PS...Something Wonderful is coming. :lol:

[frostrubin]

:eek:
VERY detailed! This model will fit for close ups!
How high is the polycount so far? And what software do you use? Maya? 3d-MAX?
Can´t wait to see more.

[jedilaw]

:eek:
VERY detailed! This model will fit for close ups!
How high is the polycount so far? And what software do you use? Maya? 3d-MAX?
Can´t wait to see more. I'm using layers very extensively, only keeping visible the areas that I need to render, so poly counts vary. For most shots its around 700k. I think the total model, if every layer is visible except for my building layers i about 1.5-1.8 million. I'm expecting the end result to be at least 3 million.

Software-wise, I'm using 3D Studio Max 9, though everything I'm doing can be done in Max 7.

[rider]

Thank you for the answers jedilaw, very helpful indeed, I appreciate it very much ;)

[OylPslyk]

I have a few images that may be of help. these are from one of the Lucasfilm Archive books. ( I know the pics are crappy, its a crappy camera... lol)
if any could help, just let me know and I'll make some hi-res scans for you

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k62/OylPslyk/th_DSC00069.jpg (http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k62/OylPslyk/DSC00069.jpg) http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k62/OylPslyk/th_DSC00068.jpg (http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k62/OylPslyk/DSC00068.jpg)http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k62/OylPslyk/th_DSC00067.jpg (http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k62/OylPslyk/DSC00067.jpg)http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k62/OylPslyk/th_DSC00066.jpg (http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k62/OylPslyk/DSC00066.jpg)
There may be more, but I cant find the other book right now.

[bar]

Sweet.
Hook up an SLA machine and make me one in 1/2500...
;)

[jedilaw]

I have a few images that may be of help. these are from one of the Lucasfilm Archive books. ( I know the pics are crappy, its a crappy camera... lol)
if any could help, just let me know and I'll make some hi-res scans for you

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k62/OylPslyk/th_DSC00069.jpg (http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k62/OylPslyk/DSC00069.jpg) http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k62/OylPslyk/th_DSC00068.jpg (http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k62/OylPslyk/DSC00068.jpg)http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k62/OylPslyk/th_DSC00067.jpg (http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k62/OylPslyk/DSC00067.jpg)http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k62/OylPslyk/th_DSC00066.jpg (http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k62/OylPslyk/DSC00066.jpg)
There may be more, but I cant find the other book right now.

Cool! Those middle two shots would definitely come in handy if I had hi res scans of them to refer to.

Update:

http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u20/jedilaw/waj-isd-towergreebs11.jpg

[Monsieur Tox]

Very nice :)

The second shot is actually not a shot of the 8 feet, but this is a large portion of the brim trenches built for close ups.

[Max Zephyr]

This is such an awesome project. I love how the detail just sucks you in, I can't stop looking at it!!!

[OylPslyk]

yes, the 2nd is just trench, also shot 4 is the ship from the intro of A New Hope. the 1st image is a large mock-up (about 5' tall), i think the one they used to ram the A-wing into, as well as had the tiny falcon clamped onto im back

Ill run the scans 1st thing mundy...

[REL]

Damn have you applied at ILM yet?

[jedilaw]

Damn have you applied at ILM yet?

No...I already spend every dime of a lawyer's salary, and living in the Bay Area...OMFG.

Let me put it like this: My first law job was in Silicon Valley, 1hr south of S.F.

I was making over $100k, went to apply for an apartment...when they saw my salary, they said "Oh, let us show you one of our less expensive properties."

I used to pay $2800/mo for two bedrooms


Still...if ILM came calling...damn...

"Hey kids! You like peanut butter, right? And ramen noodles? Well guess what!"

[jedilaw]

Update time: http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u20/jedilaw/waj-isd-towergreebs12a.jpg

[OylPslyk]

Here you go...

The highest I was able to go was 300dpi with them, the printed ink just wasnt up to any higher. It turns out on some ot them that the photography kinda sucks too.

the files are large, 3m up to 13m for the biggest one. So I uploaded to mediafie instead of photobucket,

If you find a spot where you'd like me to try for some coverage scans at about 600 and try to clean them up some just let me know.

http://www.mediafire.com/?2e9ywcwgz0z
http://www.mediafire.com/?aw1w1ztkobo
http://www.mediafire.com/?7mhl2tmn2xj
http://www.mediafire.com/?dehhxy1mt3b
http://www.mediafire.com/?ayd0ctdxdom

[jedilaw]

Thanks, man!

I need all the refs I can get...

[PetarB]

Amazing work here. I didn't do a detail read, but I wonder how many hours you've put into this already?

[jedilaw]

Amazing work here. I didn't do a detail read, but I wonder how many hours you've put into this already?Lord, I have no earthly idea. I've been working since mid-November of 2006, but can't devote a large amount of time to it since this is purely hobby work. I would say at least 200-300 hours.

[jedilaw]

Update time again at the County Zoo:

http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u20/jedilaw/waj-isd-towergreebs13.jpg

http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u20/jedilaw/waj-isd-towergreebs14.jpg

[REL]

Holy shnikeys!

[Titon]

Nice work!

:)

[jedilaw]

Thanks guys!

Another update, bottom is mostly done on this side:

http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u20/jedilaw/waj-isd-towergreebs17.jpg
http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u20/jedilaw/waj-isd-towergreebs15.jpg
http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u20/jedilaw/waj-isd-towergreebs16.jpg

[rider]

Now thats what I call a close up.
Wonderful jedilaw.

[OylPslyk]

Speaking of closeups, I'd bet a 1st person pov looking out from the bridge would make a pretty powefull image too! think u could wrangle one?

[jedilaw]

Speaking of closeups, I'd bet a 1st person pov looking out from the bridge would make a pretty powefull image too! think u could wrangle one? I could, except that no one's really sure which structure on the conning tower is the actual bridge. Lots of people think the large "windows" are it, but given the scale of the ship and the images we've seen of ISD bridges, those openings are waaaaaaay too large to be part of the bridge.

If/when I move on to the "hero" version (uber-detailed for closeups, like the large Executor bridge module) I'm considering creating windows with interiors. At the current level of detail, those wouldn't be appropriate.

[Kuhn Global]

SWEET MOTHER OF BISCUITS AND GRAVY!!! :eek: :eek:

jedilaw..... duuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuude!

Nicely done sir!!! :D

Watching this thread I am! ;)

[jedilaw]

Thank you sir!

I'd request your expert services in photography, if she was physical rather than digital.

Though if you have any general pointers about the lighting setups ILM was using, that would be helpful.

[jedilaw]

Update time again:

http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u20/jedilaw/waj-isd-towergreebs19.jpg

[REL]

Looking better and better. I know this has to be as much or more time consuming than making a physical ship because each part is basically scratch built in the computer, you don't have the luxury of kit bashing.

But that made me wonder: Is it possible to save all those greebles as separate files for use on other CG Star Wars/Trek projects where kitbashing was used extensively? You could create a databank of kit greebles beyond imagination, and in fact, if those parts were needed by physical modelers, they could even be 3d printed from those files.

It makes my head swim at the possibilities.

[jedilaw]

Looking better and better. I know this has to be as much or more time consuming than making a physical ship because each part is basically scratch built in the computer, you don't have the luxury of kit bashing.

But that made me wonder: Is it possible to save all those greebles as separate files for use on other CG Star Wars/Trek projects where kitbashing was used extensively? You could create a databank of kit greebles beyond imagination, and in fact, if those parts were needed by physical modelers, they could even be 3d printed from those files.

It makes my head swim at the possibilities.

Yes, you can. I have a separate group of layers where all of the greebles are stored, then I copy those pieces to the layers where they are aligned with the ship.

To a certain extent, I am kit-bashing here, insofar as once I make a greeble that is getting re-used, all I have to do is copy it over and over again.

The CG greeble pack idea has been tried, hard to say how successfully. Fabio Passaro over at LWG3d sells a pack at www.meshweaver.com. He worked on the engines of the CG Galactica for the new series. I've released five greeble packs for free on SFM, and they're among the most popular downloads there. Don't see them getting used that often in WIPs, though.

[master]

Hi there,

That is a great Job. I loved it.

This web side can help, if you need...

I am so excited to see fully finished version.

Here you go :

http://www.cloudster.com/Sets&Vehicles/SWstarDestroyer/StarDestroyerRearArea.htm

Best Wishes.
:)

[Kuhn Global]

Wayne.... this is such a jaw dropper! I can't stop looking at it! :D LOLOLOLOLOLOL

[jedilaw]

Wayne.... this is such a jaw dropper! I can't stop looking at it! :D LOLOLOLOLOLOL

Thanks!

To be honest, though, there are times when I wish that I could stop looking at it. Over a year of staring at one model...(I gathered photos and studied them for a good while before I started modeling). Still, the 8-footer is, IMHO, the greatest practical model ever built, followed closely by the TMP Enterprise and the 50-foot Discovery from 2001.

[Jedi Dade]

I took these pics of the 8 footer bacjk in 2000 when the MoM was in Brooklyn NY... You might find them useful.

http://www.studioscale.com/images/reference/Star%20Destroyer/Frank%20Wire/index.htm

The are sequential where the pic in front and behind of the one your looking at is next to the are depicted. it wraps around the model covering most of it. the bottom was tough but I got most everything else pretty well I think.

Looks fantastic BTW...

Jedi Dade

[jedilaw]

Frank,

Thanks for those shots. I've been using several of your images as references for a while now.

Update:

http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u20/jedilaw/waj-isd-towergreebs23.jpg

[Kuhn Global]

Wayne!! :eek:

This artform truly does justice to these wonderful models!!

My commission plans have changed radically because of it! ;)

Aside from a commission that Randy Cooper will be doing for the collection from his upcoming SD kit, there will be another, more detailed one-off beastie built in '08 due to viewing some of your fine detailed CG model examples,.. and such other works of another fine physical modeler.

Your work is inspiring sir!!! :D

[jedilaw]

Brief update (RL is getting in the way here big time):

http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u20/jedilaw/waj-isd-towergreebs26.jpg[/QUOTE]

[Kuhn Global]

Wayne, I know this is a repeat of what I always say in this thread, but this artwork REALLY amazes me! :D

duuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuude! :cool::cool::cool:

[Griffworks]

Can't see the pics you've linked from Photobucket. The bastiche COMM Nazi's have anything from image hosting sites blocked - links of images. :(

What I saw in the first page looks awesome, tho!

[jedilaw]

A few beauty renders, for the holidays:

http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u20/jedilaw/waj-isd93.jpg

http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u20/jedilaw/waj-isd93.jpg

http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u20/jedilaw/waj-isd91.jpg

http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u20/jedilaw/waj-isd91.jpg

http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u20/jedilaw/waj-isd92.jpg

http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u20/jedilaw/waj-isd92.jpg

[Kuhn Global]

My goodness that is BEAUTIFUL!!! :D

This piece is getting closer and closer to looking complete! I can't wait to see this beastie done! The 3D CG models really impress me! :D

Again... nice job Wayne! ;)

[OylPslyk]

any updates?

[REL]

Holy shit! Because you're doing each greeble as it is on the studio model, this thing just looks right. It's probably subconscious because we're seeing what we actually saw on the real thing. This is the best CG render of this ship on the planet right now, and I understand Lorne Peterson agrees.

[jedilaw]

any updates?

Sure:

http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u20/jedilaw/WAJ-ISD-TOWERGREEBS29.jpg
http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u20/jedilaw/WAJ-ISD-TOWERGREEBS30.jpg

@REL: If Lorne Peterson agrees, that says enough for me! Like, for a lifetime. Now if only I wasn't too fuggin' tired to model tonight...

[Kuhn Global]

NO BREAKS FOR YOU!!! LOLOLOLOLOL

Wayne... this beastie continues to impress sir! This is indeed TOP NOTCH work! :D

[jedilaw]

(*sound of door creaking*)(ominous, ghostly voice) "I liiiiiiiive!!"

http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u20/jedilaw/WAJ-ISD-TOWERGREEBS31.jpg

[REL]

(*sound of door creaking*)(ominous, ghostly voice) "I liiiiiiiive!!"

http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u20/jedilaw/WAJ-ISD-TOWERGREEBS31.jpg


Welcome back! And wow what an update!

[Scorpius]

Wow awesome! How many polygons are you at?

[jedilaw]

Wow awesome! How many polygons are you at?

Hard to say. If I recall correctly, when I do renders with all of the front details visible and the tower details, it comes out around 1.8 million or so. Renders of the rear area with the engines are about 1.4 million, as I recall. So somewhere north of 3 million, but that's not an issue because it's impossible to have all of the detail areas visible at once. I hide the layers that aren't in line-of-site, because they still slow down GI calculations even if the camera is blocked.

[The TrekModeler]

DAMN, That is GORGEOUS!

[Boxster]

Jedi sir, that is mighty freaking orgasmic!

B

[jedilaw]

Jedi sir, that is mighty freaking orgasmic!

B

Hey, don't go mis-using that garbage chute...

[Griffworks]

Beautiful work, thus far! I like how there are what appear to be battleship guns on the back of the conning tower! Pretty damned kewel. :thumbsup:

[jedilaw]

Those are turrets from the Scharnhorst.

[Kuhn Global]

WAYYYYYYNE!!! You're on! :D

Everyone was wondering where you had gone! ;) Glad you are back my friend! :D

[777]

Wow. fantastic, awesome work!

[Max Zephyr]

Awesome to see you still working on this. She is a beauty.

[jedilaw]

I had to step away from her for a while, because my brain was just starting to hurt looking at the same minute details for hours on end. I'm sure y'all know the feeling.

[Max Zephyr]

LOL yeah these like to mess with the eyes after a while. Well its paying off whatever the process. The details are breath taking!

[Kuhn Global]

I had to step away from her for a while, because my brain was just starting to hurt looking at the same minute details for hours on end. I'm sure y'all know the feeling.

Understood. ;) Everyone needs a break every once in a while. :)

I am glad to see that are alright and back in action! :D

[Kuhn Global]

Wayne.... I still can't stop looking at your work on this beastie!

SWEEEEEEEEET! :D

[JeffrySG]

Looking amazing, JL!! :D

[3DCGModeler]

All I can Say is WOW.. awesome

[rider]

Looking fantastic. Damn the real life man and full steam ahead :p
Keep at it sir. :grin:

[jedilaw]

The ISD is not dead, just resting. Pining for the fjords...

http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u20/jedilaw/WAJ-ISD-TOWERGREEBS34.jpg

http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u20/jedilaw/WAJ-ISD-TOWERGREEBS35.jpg

[Kuhn Global]

Good Lord Wayne! :eek::eek::eek::eek: I always lose my breath when viewing your work!

This is some of the best I have ever seen. :D